This will be a forum for the Brookland-Cayce High School SCRI Study Group members who are currently enrolled in Assessment and Literacy to thoughtfully consider our leaning. Study group members will be required to post at least 14 times over the duration of our class.
Sunday, February 08, 2009
Reading for a purpose was great. Thanks, Mitch. Setting a purpose for our students is so important. I know that the "Grammar Test" was a little disconcerting, but it is a great tool to use with students to talk about how people are judged by the way they speak and write--fairly or unfairly.
Thank you for listening to my cultural autobiography. I am sorry for not modeling it earlier. How did you feel about being given time to work in class? Was it productive for you?
The material in chapter 10 is such that I will probably be debating for years my feelings about redoing tests. There are so many good points in this chapter, including intellectual teachers being merciful, getting parents involved, helping students schedule a plan of study, and not allowing redos during the last week of the grading period. Thanks for saving teacher sanity on this one! I have five students who I am working with now on redos. Each has a very different situation but each need is valid and important for the well-being of that student. I believe that for the most part, though, that if material is reviewed each day during the chapter and a full day is set aside for pure review and “putting it all together”, most all students will be ready when the chapter test is given. When there is a blanket redo policy we are encouraging students to be irresponsible for their learning. Students know that if I feel a redo is necessary for them that I will initiate the request. It is most important that they not take the policy for granted, and give their very best efforts to the learning of the material the first time around.
Thanks, Paula, for modeling your cultural autobiography. Not only did it help me tremendously to get started on mine, it helped me to get to know you better. The time you gave us in class was much appreciated.
Jane, I have thought a lot about re-dos too. At first, I thought letting students re-do tests, etc. was not a good idea, but then I realized that just letting them "cop out" by not trying or just giving up really did not hold them accountable. I was actually sending them the message that it was okay not to learn the material. I do appreciate the fact that you know your students well enough to gauge which students really need extra time and/or extra help.
I read Chapter 10 and have mixed feelings about redoing work and redoing tests. Students need the opportunity to redeem themselves. Lets face it, we all have bad days. In this case, I'm all in favor for allowing them the opportunity to redo work. If the students come to expect this, they might not taking the test day as serious. I know in with my children they might not study as hard if they knew they were going to get another chance. Recently we've had this opportunity to redo a test in my son's Algebra class at Northside. If the students want to retest they have to work an extra set of problems for review. In this case, it takes extra effort to retest and they are not taking the opportunity for granted. Another case where I think a retest is appropriate is if the majority of the class did not do well on the test. At that point, I would have to evaluate myself and questions whether I covered the material sufficiently.
Thanks for sharing you cultural autobiography. It was a big help and now I know how to get started. Having time to work and not be interrupted is also a pleasure that I don't have very often. Thanks!
In response to Ch. 10's "Redo Work for Full Credit", I understand the value of allowing students the opportunity to redo work. The author suggests that parents sign a form at the beginning of the semester. Also, another helpful suggestions was the one made about a student created calendar of completion. I plan to use this idea because it is a wonderful organizational tool for students. The author states "it means we set a date by which time the redone work is submitted, or the grade becomes permanent." One note that surprised me was the author's suggestions for full credit. I have always averaged the two grades. However, the author believes that the higher grade should be recorded.
When I looked at the title of chapter ten I knew I was going to get upset reading this chapter. Redoing work for full credit is a touchy subject. I have been told that some middle schools used to require that the students get an automatic redo of a test if they failed it. I do believe that there are sometimes when a redo is necessary due to extenuating circumstances but a majority of the time it isn’t. Okay, there are times when the method of instruction doesn’t always work for every student in the class but isn’t it the student’s responsibility to speak up before the assessment. More personal responsibility should be taken by our students and its not! On a daily basis I am seeing students who expect answers to be handed to them and no work is required on their part. I love teaching but I hate this book because most of the time responsibility isn’t being placed on the student. The book says it’s the teacher’s responsibility to do this and do that but rarely in the chapters do we read more then a paragraph on what students should be doing? No. What happened to teachers being there to not only teach and create ungodly amounts of paper work but to be there as a support system for the students. I don’t believe that we are doing them a service by coddling them.
Sadie, I completely understand what you are thinking. However, I can't help but think of the times in my adult life that I have been able to have a re-do, and I have been able to learn valuable things about myself.
I do want students to be responsible and be prepared to tests when we first take them. However, if the student has been trying and did not do well they may retest. Also, if they start to work harder and come in for review, then they may retest. Since math is so developmental, there are also times that I can tell from later tests that the student has learned the earlier material and I will raise their grade even with out a retest. Since we started giving students the opportunity of “credit recovery” I now encourage students to start that process with me, before it gets to the final grade, if they are failing. I now need to do more for the average students who want to work for a better grade.
Blog 10 Time in class to work on our cultural biographies and Paula's model, was most helpful in getting started on my own cultural biography. I think I know what to do now! Conditions for Redoing Work
If teachers allow students to retake exams, and redo work for full credit, I like what Ms. Smithwick suggests. By having students take that extra step and explain how they corrected their mistakes, the students are proving that they learned from their mistakes. It also should take away a student’s desire to not prepare for the first test knowing that another opportunity waits. That second opportunity at least comes with some strings attached. I also admire the teacher who does not mind creating more work for himself . The author is right that we some times need to treat our students like adults in that things do just come up at times. Students have things to deal with at home just like adults, and many times those things they must deal with are handed to them from an adult. I also like that the stipulation that original work has to signed by a parent before redone work can be assigned. As a parent, I would like to know that my child didn’t do as well as she could have done the first time. This way I can decide if the behavior is a habit or if she is really learning as she goes. I smiled when I read “don’t’ average the first and second grade together.” I remember a girl cheating off of my daughter’s paper during her 7th grade year. The teacher got to the bottom of the how and why. She told me that she believed that the girl had cheated and that my daughter had no knowledge of the cheating. Why then did she make both girls retake the test and average the second grade with the first grade? My daughter made a 100 and a 90. The other girl made a 90 and a 50. It was obvious to me who had studied for the test. But to be FAIR, both girls had to be punished. I guess this is another example of Fair Isn’t Always Equal. I like the calendar of completion. Again, God bless the teacher, because this only creates more work for her. I must remember that “compassion goes a long way and isn’t soft.” I agree with not allowing the work to be redone during the last week of the grading period although most students don’t think about doing the work over until the grades are about to come out! I hope all teachers realize that we all get do overs from time to time in the real world. If we didn’t, we would never have any progress. After all, the nature of man is to learn from our mistakes. .
Blog 10 Time in class to work on our cultural biographies and Paula's model, was most helpful in getting started on my own cultural biography. I think I know what to do now! Conditions for Redoing Work
If teachers allow students to retake exams, and redo work for full credit, I like what Ms. Smithwick suggests. By having students take that extra step and explain how they corrected their mistakes, the students are proving that they learned from their mistakes. It also should take away a student’s desire to not prepare for the first test knowing that another opportunity waits. That second opportunity at least comes with some strings attached. I also admire the teacher who does not mind creating more work for himself . The author is right that we some times need to treat our students like adults in that things do just come up at times. Students have things to deal with at home just like adults, and many times those things they must deal with are handed to them from an adult. I also like that the stipulation that original work has to signed by a parent before redone work can be assigned. As a parent, I would like to know that my child didn’t do as well as she could have done the first time. This way I can decide if the behavior is a habit or if she is really learning as she goes. I smiled when I read “don’t’ average the first and second grade together.” I remember a girl cheating off of my daughter’s paper during her 7th grade year. The teacher got to the bottom of the how and why. She told me that she believed that the girl had cheated and that my daughter had no knowledge of the cheating. Why then did she make both girls retake the test and average the second grade with the first grade? My daughter made a 100 and a 90. The other girl made a 90 and a 50. It was obvious to me who had studied for the test. But to be FAIR, both girls had to be punished. I guess this is another example of Fair Isn’t Always Equal. I like the calendar of completion. Again, God bless the teacher, because this only creates more work for her. I must remember that “compassion goes a long way and isn’t soft.” I agree with not allowing the work to be redone during the last week of the grading period although most students don’t think about doing the work over until the grades are about to come out! I hope all teachers realize that we all get do overs from time to time in the real world. If we didn’t, we would never have any progress. After all, the nature of man is to learn from our mistakes. .
My last posting was a bit of a rant on this subject...It's difficult to determine when a student should be allowed a redo. AS we are responsible for preparing them for the big bad world, I must remind myself--there aren't many redos given.
Then I also remember, they are students...I'm their teacher. As a teacher, it's important to give students some scaffolding some support--so one day they won't be terrifed for the training wheels to be taken off. We must be honest with our students--give them context for what is more likely to happen in a classroom versus how a redo situation would be handled in job setting.
I like many of the ideas Ghallager gave in Chapter 10--many of the ideas made that connection between giving a student support and making them "aware of what's going on."
I posted this a few minutes ago and the server kicked me off. The older I get the more I believe in re-tests. The intent is for the student to learn the material not to punish the student for not learning. Will some students take advantage of this and never study. Sure they will, but ultimately they have to take the test and pass. This brings me to another thought. Do we attach too much importance to tests. I know a professional group such as ours has a multitude of ways to assess student growth but what about other teachers. Is testing the easy way out. In writing students are given a topic. They write a rough draft, they edit the draft and they re-write the paper. Why should the other subjects be any different. I feel like I owe an apology to my students of previous years for counting tests as too much of their final grade. When I think back this may have been terribly unfair. Its something to think about. Mitch
11 comments:
Blog 10 Jane Gregory
The material in chapter 10 is such that I will probably be debating for years my feelings about redoing tests. There are so many good points in this chapter, including intellectual teachers being merciful, getting parents involved, helping students schedule a plan of study, and not allowing redos during the last week of the grading period. Thanks for saving teacher sanity on this one! I have five students who I am working with now on redos. Each has a very different situation but each need is valid and important for the well-being of that student. I believe that for the most part, though, that if material is reviewed each day during the chapter and a full day is set aside for pure review and “putting it all together”, most all students will be ready when the chapter test is given. When there is a blanket redo policy we are encouraging students to be irresponsible for their learning. Students know that if I feel a redo is necessary for them that I will initiate the request. It is most important that they not take the policy for granted, and give their very best efforts to the learning of the material the first time around.
Thanks, Paula, for modeling your cultural autobiography. Not only did it help me tremendously to get started on mine, it helped me to get to know you better. The time you gave us in class was much appreciated.
Jane, I have thought a lot about re-dos too. At first, I thought letting students re-do tests, etc. was not a good idea, but then I realized that just letting them "cop out" by not trying or just giving up really did not hold them accountable. I was actually sending them the message that it was okay not to learn the material. I do appreciate the fact that you know your students well enough to gauge which students really need extra time and/or extra help.
I read Chapter 10 and have mixed feelings about redoing work and redoing tests. Students need the opportunity to redeem themselves. Lets face it, we all have bad days. In this case, I'm all in favor for allowing them the opportunity to redo work. If the students come to expect this, they might not taking the test day as serious. I know in with my children they might not study as hard if they knew they were going to get another chance. Recently we've had this opportunity to redo a test in my son's Algebra class at Northside. If the students want to retest they have to work an extra set of problems for review. In this case, it takes extra effort to retest and they are not taking the opportunity for granted. Another case where I think a retest is appropriate is if the majority of the class did not do well on the test. At that point, I would have to evaluate myself and questions whether I covered the material sufficiently.
Thanks for sharing you cultural autobiography. It was a big help and now I know how to get started. Having time to work and not be interrupted is also a pleasure that I don't have very often. Thanks!
In response to Ch. 10's "Redo Work for Full Credit", I understand the value of allowing students the opportunity to redo work. The author suggests that parents sign a form at the beginning of the semester. Also, another helpful suggestions was the one made about a student created calendar of completion. I plan to use this idea because it is a wonderful organizational tool for students. The author states "it means we set a date by which time the redone work is submitted, or the grade becomes permanent." One note that surprised me was the author's suggestions for full credit. I have always averaged the two grades. However, the author believes that the higher grade should be recorded.
When I looked at the title of chapter ten I knew I was going to get upset reading this chapter. Redoing work for full credit is a touchy subject. I have been told that some middle schools used to require that the students get an automatic redo of a test if they failed it. I do believe that there are sometimes when a redo is necessary due to extenuating circumstances but a majority of the time it isn’t. Okay, there are times when the method of instruction doesn’t always work for every student in the class but isn’t it the student’s responsibility to speak up before the assessment. More personal responsibility should be taken by our students and its not! On a daily basis I am seeing students who expect answers to be handed to them and no work is required on their part. I love teaching but I hate this book because most of the time responsibility isn’t being placed on the student. The book says it’s the teacher’s responsibility to do this and do that but rarely in the chapters do we read more then a paragraph on what students should be doing? No. What happened to teachers being there to not only teach and create ungodly amounts of paper work but to be there as a support system for the students. I don’t believe that we are doing them a service by coddling them.
Sadie, I completely understand what you are thinking. However, I can't help but think of the times in my adult life that I have been able to have a re-do, and I have been able to learn valuable things about myself.
Ch. 10 – Redoing work
I do want students to be responsible and be prepared to tests when we first take them. However, if the student has been trying and did not do well they may retest. Also, if they start to work harder and come in for review, then they may retest. Since math is so developmental, there are also times that I can tell from later tests that the student has learned the earlier material and I will raise their grade even with out a retest. Since we started giving students the opportunity of “credit recovery” I now encourage students to start that process with me, before it gets to the final grade, if they are failing. I now need to do more for the average students who want to work for a better grade.
Blog 10
Time in class to work on our cultural biographies and Paula's model, was most helpful in getting started on my own cultural biography. I think I know what to do now!
Conditions for Redoing Work
If teachers allow students to retake exams, and redo work for full credit, I like what Ms. Smithwick suggests. By having students take that extra step and explain how they corrected their mistakes, the students are proving that they learned from their mistakes. It also should take away a student’s desire to not prepare for the first test knowing that another opportunity waits. That second opportunity at least comes with some strings attached. I also admire the teacher who does not mind creating more work for himself .
The author is right that we some times need to treat our students like adults in that things do just come up at times. Students have things to deal with at home just like adults, and many times those things they must deal with are handed to them from an adult. I also like that the stipulation that original work has to signed by a parent before redone work can be assigned. As a parent, I would like to know that my child didn’t do as well as she could have done the first time. This way I can decide if the behavior is a habit or if she is really learning as she goes.
I smiled when I read “don’t’ average the first and second grade together.” I remember a girl cheating off of my daughter’s paper during her 7th grade year. The teacher got to the bottom of the how and why. She told me that she believed that the girl had cheated and that my daughter had no knowledge of the cheating. Why then did she make both girls retake the test and average the second grade with the first grade? My daughter made a 100 and a 90. The other girl made a 90 and a 50. It was obvious to me who had studied for the test. But to be FAIR, both girls had to be punished. I guess this is another example of Fair Isn’t Always Equal.
I like the calendar of completion. Again, God bless the teacher, because this only creates more work for her. I must remember that “compassion goes a long way and isn’t soft.” I agree with not allowing the work to be redone during the last week of the grading period although most students don’t think about doing the work over until the grades are about to come out! I hope all teachers realize that we all get do overs from time to time in the real world. If we didn’t, we would never have any progress. After all, the nature of man is to learn from our mistakes.
.
Blog 10
Time in class to work on our cultural biographies and Paula's model, was most helpful in getting started on my own cultural biography. I think I know what to do now!
Conditions for Redoing Work
If teachers allow students to retake exams, and redo work for full credit, I like what Ms. Smithwick suggests. By having students take that extra step and explain how they corrected their mistakes, the students are proving that they learned from their mistakes. It also should take away a student’s desire to not prepare for the first test knowing that another opportunity waits. That second opportunity at least comes with some strings attached. I also admire the teacher who does not mind creating more work for himself .
The author is right that we some times need to treat our students like adults in that things do just come up at times. Students have things to deal with at home just like adults, and many times those things they must deal with are handed to them from an adult. I also like that the stipulation that original work has to signed by a parent before redone work can be assigned. As a parent, I would like to know that my child didn’t do as well as she could have done the first time. This way I can decide if the behavior is a habit or if she is really learning as she goes.
I smiled when I read “don’t’ average the first and second grade together.” I remember a girl cheating off of my daughter’s paper during her 7th grade year. The teacher got to the bottom of the how and why. She told me that she believed that the girl had cheated and that my daughter had no knowledge of the cheating. Why then did she make both girls retake the test and average the second grade with the first grade? My daughter made a 100 and a 90. The other girl made a 90 and a 50. It was obvious to me who had studied for the test. But to be FAIR, both girls had to be punished. I guess this is another example of Fair Isn’t Always Equal.
I like the calendar of completion. Again, God bless the teacher, because this only creates more work for her. I must remember that “compassion goes a long way and isn’t soft.” I agree with not allowing the work to be redone during the last week of the grading period although most students don’t think about doing the work over until the grades are about to come out! I hope all teachers realize that we all get do overs from time to time in the real world. If we didn’t, we would never have any progress. After all, the nature of man is to learn from our mistakes.
.
My last posting was a bit of a rant on this subject...It's difficult to determine when a student should be allowed a redo. AS we are responsible for preparing them for the big bad world, I must remind myself--there aren't many redos given.
Then I also remember, they are students...I'm their teacher. As a teacher, it's important to give students some scaffolding some support--so one day they won't be terrifed for the training wheels to be taken off. We must be honest with our students--give them context for what is more likely to happen in a classroom versus how a redo situation would be handled in job setting.
I like many of the ideas Ghallager gave in Chapter 10--many of the ideas made that connection between giving a student support and making them "aware of what's going on."
I posted this a few minutes ago and the server kicked me off. The older I get the more I believe in re-tests. The intent is for the student to learn the material not to punish the student for not learning. Will some students take advantage of this and never study. Sure they will, but ultimately they have to take the test and pass. This brings me to another thought. Do we attach too much importance to tests. I know a professional group such as ours has a multitude of ways to assess student growth but what about other teachers. Is testing the easy way out. In writing students are given a topic. They write a rough draft, they edit the draft and they re-write the paper. Why should the other subjects be any different. I feel like I owe an apology to my students of previous years for counting tests as too much of their final grade. When I think back this may have been terribly unfair. Its something to think about. Mitch
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